NEW SIGN-UP PROCESS - PLEASE READ.

When an event is made on the calendar, it is automatically posted to this section of the forum.


From now on (as of 12-07-12) ALL EVENTS WILL BE SLOTTED.

This means, no matter the Operation, you will see this on each event:

Tank 1:
Tank 2:
Melee 1:
Melee 2:
Ranged 1:
Ranged 2:
Healer 1:
Healer 2:

Reserve:

THE SLOTS ARE FIRST COME FIRST SERVE.

This slotted structure means we should very rarely have to ask people to sit out to let certain classes go instead.

The slots are filled in order of sign-up.
The Operations Leader reserves the right to change the structure of the slots, but must have a solid reason to do so.


To "Sign up" to an event, simply reply to the specific thread stating you wish to attend, and include your class and role.

I have ruled that we will no longer put up with people turning up and expecting an invite after not bothering to sign-up. No sign-up, no invitation. We'll replace from general chat.

Organisation is key! Help us help you! If we get this nailed, progression is sure to follow!

Thanks!

- Adesta

After the last few week's it has come to my attention that we have now grown as a guild
to a point were there are not enough space's for everyone that sign's up for guild run's,

so I'm asking now what do we do as a Guild to make it so everyone,

I have been thinking of two Guild op team's or starting 16 man once but from the past 16 man's are very hard and sometime very confusing and two 8 man group's might end up having to pug the last spot's,

but i have also noticed that there are still people just logging on and asking about ops this has to STOP everyone that goes in ops sign up it take's 2 too 3 minute's,
"So we will be going back to a first come first served"

I will admit that I don't check every day and sometimes i might miss the odd person, but to help this problem I'm no longer going to put up a full month worth of operation's i will do them on a weekly base's
after the end of the week operation or i will put a vote system in for the op night's and everyone get's to pick what they want to do but i haven't put much thought in that part yet.

as well we will also be sticking to what op is on for the night not changing plan's (this make's more problem's on the night and make's it unfair for people that signed up for what was planned) which is why as a guild we need to find out what night's are best for everyone and what it is that everyone want's to do,

I have planned ever operation to date and now i think it's about time i step down and ask as a guild what do people want to do with ops night "gear up" or "have fun" no matter what the op is

i have a very high respect for everyone in the guild more then i can say in just simple word's and now i think it's time we all as a guild look towards what it is we want to do, as we give so many option's and with having EV KP EC and now TFB it make's my job sorting out the week's event a lot harder then normal.

so any thought's from everyone please put a reply to this post so we can get the ball rolling,

here are my thoughts for the expanding guild- i think we need more days allocated for ops for other stuff for example it did take us 2 days to complete denova, also i would like to do boss runs and datacron runs at some point also just for codex and fun, also other thoughts is the 2 ops a night would be a good idea with a mix of high end ops for gearing and low end op also for gearing but for new level 50's ect so the guild can keep expanding and having more guild members geared and getting the chance to do operations that we no longer to like EV SM ect. Perhaps you will need to assign certain people that will be in charge of ops on different days there is just a few suggestions i can think off- i have really enjoyed being a part of this guild as this is my first MMO but i feel TOR would not be so much fun if it wasnt for the order of light

The problem of a guild organizing raid stuff is not a new problem. It's easy to understand that building a team of 8 persons out of 10 can give some headaches and lead to some frustrations. But this is the same everywhere, in sport for examples there are people sitting on the bench.

This is indeed a problem but this is not the problem that caused so much wrongness Wednesday. Wednesday, 8 people alltogether were wrong in their behavior. The leader who authorized a run out of the schedule and who knew that it would rule out one of his guildmember. Those who knew the schedule because they registered, who knew that it would rule out one of their guildmate, but stayed dumb and just followed the flow. Those who didn't even bother to register and who tag along without taking much care of the guild organisation. This is something guys that you would have not done (I hope) in real life.

As you understand, I was hurted not because I could not make a specific run, I was hurted because I think that friends should *not* be treated like that. That being said, I'm getting it over and I will not speak about it anymore. I just had to make my point of view clear.

Regarding rosters and trying to make everyone happy

Yeah I cant really make any better suggestions since as Mel said its on one hand a nice issue to have (too many members) but on other creates issues if people can never get a spot on ops. This is exacerbated by us being at about 12 regular ops runners I think now and we need probably 5 more active people and at least 1 person willing to be the op leader to ensure we could run a second op especially since member activity geos up and down on a weekly basis due to vacation/work/other games etc etc.

Sadly every solution is a compromise that deters from a nice casual friendly experience which means more rules unfortunately.

I suggest for now, as you have already stated bren, create the signups for only the week ahead, this will resolve one issue with members signing up for next month and then not showing due to whatever reason.

The next issue is one more of honour, since signups are largely a first come, first serve system, many people might not be able to get to the forums before others and so can’t ever attend due to someone else being faster on the signup. I think the solution here is the op leader or just amongst the members looks if someone should make way for another person to give them a chance at the run.

By this I mean, let’s say we have our Wednesday run and we have all 8 spots filled but 2 other reserves have “been on the bench” for the previous week. We make a decision about resting 1 person to give another a shot despite the fact they were first in signup. Sometimes this is motivated by reasons for being on the run, i.e. will benefit from every boss gear wise, not ran it much; need experience down to just doing it for fun. Ideally this is resolved amongst the members themselves like Gezza new gunslinger wants a shot at HM so I volunteer to rest or come on other alt if needed or op leader makes a call on final roster. Ofc there will always be some last minute juggling as always happen.

I think some sort of mix of the above will help make it a fairer process for getting everyone into the raid they want.

Fairness to Europeans – be on time!

If you sign up for an op, please please be ready to go at the scheduled time (or even before - and by go, I mean ready to enter the instance with stims in hand). Many of us are Europeans so an hour or two ahead and every time the op starts late for whatever reason is either eating into our sleeping time (making the run go past midnight our time) or making it less likely the op will be completed during a single run since we will need to leave before the op is done.

Trying for two ops teams at once – the future!?

So we are at that awkward stage of trying to get another ops team. This will also be awkward until we have more people than we need for a second team whom are all at the right gear/experience level for the suggested op.

What we need?
• 1-2 more willing ops leaders – nothing will happen without those anyway
• A few more healers specifically in guild
• A couple more ranged dps

In addition to:

ON DEMAND OP for quick gearing of new characters

Mixing over geared/experience people with newer characters or people lacking ops experience in order to quickly gear and teach them each op.

The times when we need to run these ops are rarer now but I think if we have a few people looking to get columi or some rakata bits or just not ran ops before, or wanting experience in a new role, we do an unscheduled op to quickly go through SM mode to teach strategy to new people or gear them up. Risk is low and time needed should be an hour or so, perhaps 2.

We can make the chance of gearing faster by having the people not wanting gear leave on any chest based loot wilst it is being opened so only those left will be picked for the gear in terms of class based loot.

BUT


16 man social run/nightmare pilgrim voss dude

Purely for fun, we should every few weeks try to run a 16man op, even if its absurd clusterfuck, I think the social gain is greater than the material one but both ideally are good.

Hi all, Pol'gara here

Having read all of the above i would like to say that I agree with all in that ops sign-ups should be posted through the day on Friday for the following week only.

I think also that designated days & times should be stated for STARTing the runs and that if people cannot make it, then a '10 minute before deadline' should be instigated in order that there be no fallout for those who either don't turn up or are late!

That way the reserves can get in before a pug is made and also there is no comeback on the organizer of the run!

I would like to put myself forward to run an optional 8 man team perhaps on either a Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Monday evening (not all of course but I'd be willing to run 2 nights). This will leave me able to run with the higher geared ops team members on the Wednesday or Thursday night ops.

These nights (Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon) could be used for SM ops for progression to HM lower ops and eventually progressing for gearing to a second 8 man ops group running Denova, etc.

As many members maybe aware at the moment I have Pol'gara who is the guild high level Healer.
I also have Gen'tess who is more than geared for SM/HM EV & KP as a Commando, plus I also have Tragor'ul who is again geared enough for SM/HM EV & KP as a Tank.

I would be more than happy to run a regular ops night weather 8 man or more. I'd even run a 16 man 'FUN' night just to have a guild social night where we can all get together and have a laugh without taking it to seriously (unlike the Denova runs where it has to be serious because its HARD

I suggest that anyone who is interested in joining me for an 8 man SM/HM EV or KP post a reply or check out the calender as I will post an ops run for either of the afore mentioned nights. Please also leave within the reply a preferred night and time (BST please) so I can arrange it according to the posts made and also to accommidate more of our EU guild members.
(perhaps even a morning or midday run?).

I will look to posting an ops run for sometime next weekend.

Please make sure that you have Teamspeak (optional) as this is always a PLUS when running an ops run.

Anyway, I hope this helps and should anyone else want to either help out or do the same let me know either in guild chat or by reply.

Regards

Pol/Trag/Gen Lol

I was delighted to see the lead-in time for sign ups cut from 4 weeks to a little short of a week. Historically, my Melee DPS toon Pol'ruan signed up for 4 consecutive Wednesday Ops runs only to find 2 or 3 other Mellee guildies had signed up a month before !! For me, this meant it was impossible for me to get a slot, that is why I stopped signing up. The net result is my Melee toon has missed out on all the progression the rest of you have made as well as the chance of getting some new gear. Realistically, my only option now is to start again by signing up for some SM's with my Sage, which is what I will do.

To answer Pol's post rewf: SM runs etc. Sunday evening suits me fine between 7.00pm - 8.00pm, but if that is not suitable for others I am more than happy to consider other times/days and try and fit in.

Pol'ruan; Gezza et al ... :=)

on a sat and sun for the gear progression on SM if you need a high DPS to sign up if not enough spots i am more than happy to help or i am available to help anyone also on HM FP for more gearing up opportunity as i usually do the daily GF

can one of the fun nights on sunday be a world boss run been dying to get defeat them

Adesta wrote:...
THE SLOTS ARE FIRST COME FIRST SERVE....

This is no longer the case. Slots are now Operations Leader discretion. I myself will try my utmost to ensure people are rotated fairly until we can get two 8-Mans running side by side, or more 16-mans running.

Obviously, some classes are rare within the guild, meaning some people will get to go week after week, while others may end up sitting out up to two weeks at a time. We're at that state of growth.

Ops runs posted now list the previous week's members - this may help ops leaders with oversights.

Adesta wrote:...The slots are filled in order of sign-up.

This still remains true. But leaders may still ask people to change class (if they have offered to do so) or to sit out as reserve to allow someone else to go.

My aim personally, is to ensure everyone is getting a fair chunk of operations.

Capo'dante wrote:...The net result is my Melee toon has missed out on all the progression the rest of you have made as well as the chance of getting some new gear. Realistically, my only option now is to start again by signing up for some SM's with my Sage, which is what I will do.

I've begun adding 16-man operations for Tuesdays - Plenty of slots there for either your sage, or melee toon if you can make it.

Pol'gara wrote:...I think also that designated days & times should be stated for STARTing the runs and that if people cannot make it, then a '10 minute before deadline' should be instigated in order that there be no fallout for those who either don't turn up or are late!

Since this post was originally made, every event run by a guild leader has had an "invites time" and a "pull time" - Pull time being the time when the first mob should be going down.

There is no set timescale for replacing with reserves, as people's situations all differ, and I don't want to disgruntle any more people than already may be due to the other factors affecting people's moods within the guild. (Recruitment, rank, sign-ups, etc.)

This for now will just have to be handled at Leader discretion.

Pol'gara wrote:...Please make sure that you have Teamspeak (optional) as this is always a PLUS when running an ops run.

Definitely a plus, but optional.

Leorra wrote:...Sadly every solution is a compromise that deters from a nice casual friendly experience which means more rules unfortunately.

As bloated as the codex is, we'll always endeavour to create solutions that don't require rules, but common sense and consideration.

Leorra wrote:...I think the solution here is the op leader or just amongst the members looks if someone should make way for another person to give them a chance at the run.

Thankfully, we don't seem to have any greedy gremlins in the guild at the moment. That helps things greatly.

I'm thinking of making the sign-ups "temporary" and "subject to change" until 18 hours before the run is due, then the slots will be "locked in".

I am also thinking of extending the invite time to 30 minutes before the operation.

As previously mentioned, the "last weeks group" list in the sign-ups may help us out here.

ON TIME
As far as being on time is concerned, it's not just members that are the problem.

We all need to get in gear. The operation should be reset and correct mode at invites time.
People should be moving into the operation at invites time. Sometimes real life gets in the way, but when people are for example, trying to do squeeze in a warzone (as has been done before a few times) at invites time - it's distressing.

People should be stocked and ready to go for pull time. I'm timing things. The biggest time sink is not the members, but the 32 minutes (at the longest stretch to date) spent pestering people if they've got stims over and over, and not reading the chat box when they reply.


This post will be redone, and I will take all of what has been said into consideration when posting a new "sign up process"